
Some Background
I will admit that the legal profession mystifies me. Every time I say anything related to environmental law, one or more lawyers will correct me. But I suppose “turnabout is fair play”, since I will usually correct any lawyers about their details describing climate change science.
Lawyers aren’t like us normal people. Their brains work differently. I first suspected this when one of my daughters took the LSAT and gave me examples of questions, most of which my brain was not wired to answer correctly. I became further convinced of this when she went to law school, and told me about the questions they deal with, how lawyers can impress judges just by being novel in their arguments, etc.
I know I could never be a lawyer (even after staying at a Holiday Inn Express), and I never even played one on TV. But I did co-author a paper in Energy Law Journal (relating to the Daubert Standard) on my view that science cannot demonstrate causation in any rigorous way in the theory of human-caused climate change.
Regulating CO2: Is the EPA Really Trying to Help Us?
The regulation of CO2 emissions (and some other chemicals) by the EPA has also mystified me. However many of the EPA’s ~185 lawyers worked on the 2009 Endangerment Finding, they must have known that regulating CO2 emissions from U.S. cars and light-duty trucks would have no measurable impact on global climate, including sea level rise (which was a major argument in Massachusetts v. EPA).
None.
But apparently actually trying to “fix” the climate “problem” is not the EPA’s concern.
Their reason for existence is to regulate pollutants (and it doesn’t matter if Nature produces far more of a “pollutant” than people produce). And once they start regulating it, they won’t stop with certain thresholds. They will keep lowering the threshold. This keeps everyone in jobs.
I know this is the case. I once attended a meeting of the Carolinas Air Pollution Control Association (CAPCA), and the keynote speaker (from the EPA) stated, “we can’t stop making things cleaner and cleaner”. There was a collective look of astonishment in the audience, which was primarily industry representatives who try to keep their companies in compliance with state and federal environmental regulations. I assumed their real-world experience told them it is impossible to make everything 100% clean (what would it cost to keep your home 100% clean?).
And we wouldn’t want to anyway because (as Ed Calabrese has explained in many published papers), it is necessary for resilience in biological systems to be exposed to stressors. I almost never get sick, which I attribute to a pretty filthy childhood of playing in heavily bacteria-contaminated waters, not washing my hands, etc. I was sick a lot then. But not later in life. This is why the EPA’s reliance on the “linear no threshold” assumption (simply put, if a gallon of something can kill you, then one molecule is also dangerous) has little to do with our real-world experience and common sense. Kind of like the legal profession.
So, is the EPA really trying to help us? I increasingly believe they are not. They are trying to keep their jobs (and grow even more jobs; coming from NASA, I know how that works). The law (and regulations) are tools to accomplish that. Yes, the EPA has accomplished needed pollution controls through the Clean Air Act. I’m old enough to remember driving through Gary, Indiana in the 1960s, trash lining the highways everywhere, waterways choked with pollution and even catching fire.
But at what point does the Government say, “OK, we fixed the problem. Good enough. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater with damaging over-regulation.” No, that doesn’t happen. Because of the perverse way in which environmental regulations are written.
So, EPA, What About Regulating Water Vapor Emissions?
The EPA regulating CO2 emissions has a few problems, which seem to have not stopped the legal profession from doing what they do best. As I mentioned above, U.S. CO2 emissions from cars and light-duty trucks will have no measurable impact on global temperatures or sea level rise.. You could get rid of them completely. No measurable effect, Yet, here we are … regulating.
Since these are “global” problems, it has long been known that the EPA (and maybe even the Supreme Court’s Massachusetts v. EPA decision) could be on shaky ground, and maybe these are matters better left to legislation by the U.S. Congress.
But what about water vapor emissions from such vehicles? Now, there is a real possibility! Burning of any fuel (especially if we have hydrogen-powered vehicles) produces water vapor. And on a local basis (in your town or city) this extra water vapor will increase the heat index in the summer. And, and as everyone knows, “it’s not the heat, it’s the humidity”.
That’s a local problem caused by local sources of pollution, and seems to be much better suited for regulation by the EPA, which is a U.S. agency, dealing with U.S. pollution concerns.
The climate scientists who publish papers about the supposed dangers of greenhouse gas emissions make sure to exclude water vapor from their concerns, claiming CO2 is the thermostat that controls climate. I have commented extensively on the sleight of hand before. The vast majority of climate scientists believe CO2 controls temperature, and then temperature controls water vapor. CO2 is the forcing, water vapor is the feedback. But this argument (as I have addressed for many years) is just circular reasoning. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere (did I forget to mention it’s our main greenhouse gas?) is partially controlled by precipitation processes we don’t even understand yet. The climate modelers simply tune their models to remove water vapor (through precipitation processes) in an arbitrary and controlled way that has no basis in the underlying physics, which are not yet well understood. Often, these simplifying assumptions translate into assuming relative humidity always remains constant.
But I digress. What I’m talking about here isn’t regulating water vapor emissions for global climate concerns… it’s to reduce their impact on summertime heat, especially in cities.
But why stop at vehicle emissions? Humans exhale lots of water vapor (joggers even more!). Maybe we should limit jogging and the sale of bottled water? Not a big enough problem, you say? Or maybe that’s an FDA thing? I don’t know… I’m just a simple country climate scientist.
As attorney Jonathan Adler commented in response to my recent blog post on the Endangerment Finding,
The problem is, the concerns you raise are not relevant in making an endangerment finding under the Clean Air Act. The textual standard is precautionary and does not allow for any cost-benefit balancing or consideration of other trade offs. All that is required is that the EPA administrator can reasonably anticipate some threats from warming to health or welfare, the latter of which is defined quite broadly.
So, we are back to the regulatory fact that if a “pollutant” (whatever that means) causes any level of threat, discomfort, worry, anxiety, then the EPA is compelled to regulate it. How convenient. Well, I would argue water vapor emissions, especially in the summer in cities, are better suited to regulation under the Clean Air Act than CO2 emissions are.
So Why Hasn’t Water Vapor Been Regulated?
Clearly it’s not because water vapor is “necessary” to the functioning of the Earth system, since CO2 is necessary for life on Earth to exist. Which brings me back to my question, is the EPA really trying to help us when it comes to climate-related regulation?
I’m increasingly convinced that science has been hijacked in an effort to (among other motives) shake down the energy industry. This has been planned since the 1980s. It makes no difference that human flourishing depends upon energy sources which are abundant and affordable. It doesn’t matter how many people are killed in the process of Saving the Earth. The law demands regulation, and that’s all that matters.
I have evidence. In the early 1990s I was at the White House visiting Al Gore’s environmental advisor, Bob Watson, an ex-NASA stratospheric chemist who was just coming off the successful establishment of the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. He told me (as close as I can recall), “We succeeded in regulating ozone-depleting chemicals, and carbon dioxide is next“.
Keep in mind this was in the early days of the IPCC, which was tasked to determine whether humans were changing the climate with greenhouse gas emissions. Their work was just getting started, including the scientists who would assist the process. But the regulatory goal had (wink, wink, nod, nod) already been established.
So, I don’t believe the EPA is actually trying to help Americans when it comes to climate regulation. I’m sure many of their programs (waste cleanup, helping with the Flint, MI water problem, and some others) are laudable and defensible.
But when it comes to regulation related to global climate (or even local climate, as the government tries to pack even more people into small spaces, e.g. with “15 minute cities“), my experience increasingly tells me no one in the political, policy, regulatory, legal, or environmental advocacy, side of this business really cares about the global climate. Otherwise, they would admit their regulation (unlike, say, regulating the precursors to ground-level ozone pollution in cities) will have no measurable impact. They wouldn’t be trying to pack people into urban environments which we know are 5-10 deg. F hotter than their rural surroundings.
It’s all just an excuse for more power and vested interests.
This article was first published March 3, 2025, on the author’s blog at DrRoySpencer.com and is reprinted here by permission.
Thomas J. Myers says
Dr. Spencer,
Unfortunately, I know from which you speak. I spent my working years from 1977-2006 working for TVA. While I was neither an engineer nor a scientist (I have a BS in Business Administration from APSU) I learned early in my career about the frustration of dealing with the EPA from the many talented engineers and scientists that had to deal with them on a regular basis.
My initial job was documenting, for the Feds, the progress that was being made on the construction of nuclear plants. What I didn’t realize was that we were really building monuments that would never produce power, largely because of the costs related to restrictions and needless overkill directed by both the NRC and EPA. I initially was at the Hartsville Nuclear Construction site in middle Tennessee, followed by stints at Bellefonte in NE Alabama, Watts Bar in East Tennessee, and a second stint at BLN.
After my first 3 years at Hartsville, I transitioned from reporting on progress and moved into the Project Controls organization that performed scheduling, estimating, and cost analysis. Needless to say, my education in Business was extremely helpful in this endeavor and I really enjoyed it. But it seemed most of my estimating was performed on design changes directed by those two organizations than on the cost analysis that I personally deemed more critical.
When construction was stopped at Hartsville, I transferred to Bellefonte in a similar role. Again, my estimating efforts were largely devoted to changes directed by those two organizations. By 1988 construction slowed at Bellefonte due to resources being required to try to get the units at Browns Ferry and Sequoyah since we needed to get the licensed and previously operating plants back online. By that time I was the construction Project Controls Manager at Bellefonte.
I then cut back to the estimating and cost analysis side and went to Watts Bar. Same story all over again. In 1990 our site manager at Watts Bar was designated to go to Bellefonte and start preparing to restart the effort there (Browns Ferry and Sequoyah had returned to operation then).
At the request of Willie Brown, who was the overall lead for engineering and construction for TVA nuclear sites, requested that I move into a Project Management position. I performed that role in numerous areas until we discontinued Bellefonte engineering efforts in 1995, even though the NRC heads were advising us that we should complete Bellefonte because it was the best design and constructed nuclear power plant in the country. I was in on the meeting when they said that to Marvin Runyon. However, he shortly after that left TVA to become the head of the USPS and his replacement knew nothing about nuclear and didn’t believe any of it which was why it was dumped.
I that point needing a change, I moved over to the Fossil side of TVA. I was Project Manager for all of the design, procurement, construction, and testing for adding diesel generation capacity at the Meridian Naval Air Station for backup generation in case they lost power because they were on a single radial feed from TVA and had some real vulnerabilities during bad weather because of that single feed. As the commander of the facility at Meridian told us he could not afford to lost communications with the pilots there due to a power outage because they were just starting their jet training and he wanted to make sure he could communicate with them at all times. I followed that project (which was online with10MW of diesel generation that could not only feed the base but was also tied into the TVA transmission system to provide more VARs to the TVA system during extreme heat during the summer) and was Project Manager for a similar, but slightly smaller, facility in Albertville, AL so that the chicken processing plants would have water for their chicken processing plants in the event of a primary power outage.
In 2001, I was Project Manager for directing efforts of a program to add scrubbers to fossil units at several sites for SO2 removal. This included leading a team to evaluate various technologies and bids for the projects, overseeing the contractors providing the equipment, all design efforts, construction, testing, and start-up of those facilities. That’s when I became extremely aware of the EPA and its fallacies. Since TVA was also in the process of adding controls for NOx and a number of other “bad actors” we became extremely aware that what they required to some of those bad actors had an adverse affect on what we were trying to do for the other bad actors. Really a pain in the butt, and it was obvious that each of those groups in the EPA were operating totally independently from the others. All that said, before I retired in 2006, we had the scrubbers online at the Paradise Fossil Plant in KY, got significantly down the road with engineering and design for Unit 5 at the Colbert plant, got the scrubber completed and online at the Bull Run Fossil plant outside of Oak Ridge, and were starting construction for the ones at the Kingston Fossil Plant.
All of that time was excruciating due to the lack of communication within the EPA. I was in many meetings with them where they would bring someone from the other groups to address our scrubber program and they would argue in the meetings about which group in the EPA had overriding authority over environmental controls.
Sorry for the dissertation and history of my career but I wanted to emphasize my experiences and the fact that neither the EPA nor the NRC were very helpful in getting projects completed. They had some good folks, but those people didn’t have enough clout within the organizations to orchestrate badly needed change. And as a parting remark, TVA has now shut down the fossil units at Paradise and Bull Run that we spent almost a half billion dollars on just to control SO2. That doesn’t include what was spent on the controls for the other “bad actors”. So, in some respect, I just contributed to the building more monuments, I guess.
I really enjoy reading your articles on the Cornwall Alliance site and am in total agreement that the environment that the environment is cyclical and has been changing ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. Our gracious and forgiving God has control of everything, and we just need to follow His lead.
Regards,
Tom
Ron says
At what time in history was there no opening in the ozone layer prior to 1985?
What astronomers documented the condition of the ozone layer prior to 1985?
I would like to see an article on these questions.
Robert Shannon says
Went to Rite Aid here in CA for some Vitamin C and D-3 and at the cash register there is a large notice on it that receipt tapes may be harmful to my health and could cause cancer. Have we gone way to far yet? I don’t plan on licking my receipts any time soon.